Ana Serrano: Yes, exactly so we don't know. But I think that you know when people have a voice box is basically the first medium of communication that we have, and [unintelligible] that we tell stories to each other and people tell stories to each other almost every second of every day. So as a communications medium I think we would be remiss if we didn't recognize that it was a medium for the creation or telling of stories. And I make a major distinction between the telling of stories and the creation of stories. Because I think that in other media like film, print, and TV they are definitely story telling media. In the new media which makes it so exciting is that it is a medium that actually allows the audience to potentially be both the teller and the creator of the story. And so that is why it's important to talk of not only about storytelling but also about story creation. And here in this module we really start looking at what are the different models for telling stories and for creating stories. And how do we define these models given the salient characteristics of the medium that we defined in the previous module. And so the methodology by which we teach these modules is also quite different from a lot of other educational institutions in that we make it very clear to the students from the get go that we do not know what we are talking about or that it's impossible for us to know any answers, because there aren't any to be found at the moment. And that this process that they, that this course that they are undertaking is actually a process rather than a goal. And that they become part of a team of people who are trying to define what the next set of questions will be. So it's not only the new media's design program fall session or '97 session, but it's a continuous new media design program in that the previous students questions that come up are going to be used in the next set of student's questions, etc, etc. So it's an evolving organic process is what it is. As well we employ a lot of case studies and case studies change all of the time and we also employ what we call a creative tension wherein a lot of our faculty members have very different points of view from one another. And we welcome the conflict that might arise out of that out of the different points of view. And we feel that is actually an important part of the process is to come up with some areas of tension that might get resolved through discussion. And so once they have done the knowledge sharing portion the students then who come from very different backgrounds and disciplines, some of who may come from graphic design programming, writing, filmmaking, puppetry you name it, they are all here, start pitching ideas to one another and to the faculty. These ideas then get vetted and discussed and thought over until two or three ideas emerge. And then the students at the end of the knowledge sharing portion then migrate towards those ideas that they like. At which point they create a team. And then the last half of the course, which is about 10 to 12 weeks long is full on production of the prototype of the idea that they have just vetted together. So that is basically what the program is all about.

Interviewer: You have done a marvelous job of trying to wholly conceive a new approach to curriculum. I think that it's extraordinarily valuable to anybody that is trying to address even on the smallest level how multimedia content is created in the real world. A interdisciplinary approach is critical.

Let's talk a little bit more about this story creation idea. I assume that when you're thinking of this context that you're both thinking of it in terms of engines that invite story as well as a kind of the developing aesthetic about immersive environments in which players or users in essence create a narrative because they are given a multiple narrative path in which they can construct meaning out of those multiple narrative paths. Or in a kind of virtual reality context or MUD context that they are an improvisational environment where they are in agreement with their fellow users that they will create whatever level of meaning or narrative or story that they feel is appropriate or desired. Is there another way that you are looking at story creation or are those kind of it's in either one of those contexts...?

Ana Serrano: Well I think that there are many. Well I think that the thing of it that is interesting about this media is that there are several ways of looking at it. And I'm not sure how to explain this well. But I'll try. I think that the digital storytelling workshop, that the San Francisco Digital Media Center conducts, are really important for 2 reasons. One is and okay, let me start first by saying that one of the salient characteristics of this media is that the tool for creation is the same as the tool for auditing. In other media like film, television, print, the tools that you use to create something are very different from the tools of which you view something. So we may be, and the printed word is different, but that it's getting further and further apart, you know the computer and then the printed page. But and plus furthermore the distribution channels are in the hands of a select few people who choose who should publish and who should distribute it or who should not distribute. And in this media what is unique about it is that the tools for creation as I said, A, are not only much cheaper than in film and television, but you could also distribute it quite much more cheaply than certainly film, television and print. So the digital storytelling workshop at the CNPNC are important for two reasons, because one, this whole characteristic of the medium the fact that it is a democratizing medium much more so than film and television will ever be and it's sort of harkens back to what print used to be, is really important to stress and these workshops do a really good job of doing that. Secondly, the other reasons why and in terms of going through the process of going through the workshop that is made clear. And then after you have completed the workshop and you see the product of the workshop the fact that one could distribute so easily the product of the workshop is even made more clear. And plus the fact that it's a compelling piece of art that gets produced in the end and that anyone seems to be able to do it. And so I think that the value of that is something that can't be well it can't be devalued. And I think that a lot of people or some people in the new media industry, what has been happening right now is that there seems to be so many different interests and especially in terms of what people are calling story creation or storytelling. You have got on the one hand, these hypertext narrative creators like Michael Joyce and all of these people creating these hypertext fictions. You have got these virtual reality people who are creating immersed environments. You have got the MUD people. You have got the digital filmmakers and you have got the digital storytellers and ala Dana Ashley in the San Francisco Digital Media Center. You've got video artists etc. Then each one of these different people are sort of claiming the cup for what true interactive entertainment or storytelling is actually all about. And my concern with that is that I don't think that any of these people are correct. Because this medium is so and we started by talking about this medium as having depth and breadth. And because of that, it's really a continuum of storytelling, from storytelling all the way to story creation. That you must see it like that. You can't see it as one or the other of all of these different things. And that each of these different pieces makes light of one of the key and I think some of the key characteristics of the medium. And so if the digital stories created out of the digital storytelling workshop make light of the democratizing potential of this medium. And if the hypertext fictions of Michael Joyce make light of the idea that this medium allows, this medium is able to make real patterns of thinking, and if you know, that if these things are all very important. And each one of them have equal values. And so that is something that we in Media Links Habitat is very clear about. And I think that people tend to take up different camps and we don't like to see it like that. Because if no one has created that and there hasn't been a Charles Dickens of this new media. And in order for there to be a Charles Dickens in this new media they have to learn from all of these different, what I'm calling genres of storytelling that have emerged.

Interviewer: Sure. And the fact being that we would just as soon have a Jane Austen and a Charles Dickens. And they are very different. I certainly understand those distinctions, and I think that the application of our slogan digital storytelling, in the context of our festival or in who we associate with is obviously much broader than people who do work like us. And I think that we completely agree that it's not a matter of the one way, it's that we have developed a niche a skill pattern that is terribly useful for a bunch of applications but I have to worship at the temple of the Brenda Laurels and the Janet Murrays as well who seem to be helping us to understand an aesthetic of an interactive multi form kind of communication that those of us who have come from in my case, linear theater, don't really get in the same way that we get the emotional power of well structured story.